Compelled to choose freely

I am in the midst of a discussion regarding the truth (or otherwise) of Christianity with @mmcelhaney on Twitter (his blog can be found here). Of course, it is a difficult task to distil complex notions about existence, philosophy, science, and theology into 140 characters of less. As a consequence may points span multiple tweets, spawning multiple threads in reply, which inevitably bring up new topics and a raft of new points to discuss and refute.

One of these points which we have been hitting back and forth is the conflict between free will and omniscience. Marcus’s latest explanation is this (starting at this tweet):

You are right billions of people are going to hell. But billions of people are also going to heaven and God knows who is going where.

Instead of asking why you got to go to hell, you are missing the fundamental question: Why do people go to hell?

People don’t go because God doe not go against their free will or that they chose the wrong religion. Everyone has failed to meet the standard for holiness that God has set. By definition, every human being capable of choosing to to disobey God deserves hell. Even those of us who are saved deserve hell. The only difference is that God has chosen to save some of humanity through faith in Christ – Ephesians 2.

Yes, God knows who will go to hell, and He could force every single person to repent. But he does not. Why? For reasons known only to Him. No one comes to Christ against their own will. Everyone who rejects him does so willingly.

If you interviews anyone in hell and tell them that all they have to do is serve God and they can get out of hell, they will refuse and walk right back into hell. Think I’m wrong? Well, you are making the same stupid decision today if you reject Jesus.

What a jumbled mess of theology and poor logic this is, but let’s see if we can unravel some of Marcus’s ahhh… misunderstandings.

The “fact” billions might be destined for Heaven has zero bearing on the “fact” that billions are also destined for Hell. There is a dichotomy in Marcus’s head. On one hand he has an all loving God who is willingly to kill his own son in order to save us from this fiery fate (not himself mind you, unless you want to delve into the murky depths of the trinity). Marcus wishes to ignore the terrible fate of those who “choose” to spend eternity in Hell to keep his precious image of Heaven intact. Marcus – will you have a good view from Heaven where you can witness the damned being tortured?

The second part of that sentence is very telling: “and God knows who is going where”. This is classic cognitive dissonance in action, and has been my point throughout the discussion.

Marcus, imagine a time before creation. God could have created any one of an infinite number of possible universes. Being omniscient he would have known out each would play out and how their eventual destruction would come about. He would have known the intricate details of every molecule, dust speck, and living organism within each possible universe before he lifted his transcendental finger. He would have foreseen the creation of multiple religions and the false Gods that millions would bow down to. He knew which universes would contain billions of people who would end up “choosing” to reject his divinely invisible love and point themselves towards the burning gates of Hell. Yet to spite all of this he went ahead and created this universe – one in which billions do fall for the lies of “false religions”, following “false Gods” or no god at all, and wind up having the flesh burnt from their writhing bodies for all eternity. On this basis alone I would reject such a monstrosity of a being is such a thing existed (luckily there is no evidence for such a beast).

According to the theology of Christianity, God took human form as his own son so that he could pay the price of sin. Naturally, no one has been able to sufficiently answer why death is the price of sin, or why God, in his all loving mercy, could not adjust the price of sin to something less severe. You see, an all loving being would do anything and everything within his power to prevent harm from coming to those he loves, yet this is exactly what we do not see in the world. God routinely ignores prayer, sits idly by as thousands starve to death everyday, and allows his perfectly designed bacteria to infest, overcome, maim, and kill his beloved children. This is not a God I would be interested in worshipping.

Anyway, back to Marcus’s tweets:

“Everyone has failed to meet the standard for holiness that God has set.”

So why did God set the standard so high – surely he knew the organisms in this universe were not capable of attaining such lofty heights of morality without the mandated shedding of animal sacrifice, reaching its crescendo with the most perfect of all human sacrifices in the murder of Jesus himself? Oh, I am forgetting “free will” again, aren’t I?

The only difference is that God has chosen to save some of humanity through faith in Christ.

Wait a minute, I thought we had free will to choose to between eternal bliss, or complete agony? If God has already chosen who to save through “faith in Christ” then what can I do to change the ultimate outcome? Especially when God selected this particular universe from an infinite number of alternatives. This universe, where I would reach the inevitable and logical conclusion that such a being is impossible, not to mention terrifying.

God knows who will go to hell, and He could force every single person to repent. But he does not. Why? For reasons known only to Him.

So God chooses not to save those people in Hell because that would somehow interfere with free will, to spite the “fact” he is omniscient and knows every decision anyone has or will make until the end of time.

No one comes to Christ against their own will. Everyone who rejects him does so willingly.

Read those two sentences above again. Now again. Let it sink in. So is it only those people who know about Christ and willingly rejecting him who are destined for Hell? What about those billions who have never even heard the name of Jesus, or the millions of babies who die before being giving the chance to accept Jesus into their hearts, or have in thrust upon them in a baptism? How is this fair to those of us who have honestly evaluated the evidence for Christ (or any other prophet) and found it lacking? My head just exploded, but I suppose I should become familiar with that sensation now given where I am headed according to Marcus.

If you interviews anyone in hell and tell them that all they have to do is serve God and they can get out of hell, they will refuse and walk right back into hell. Think I’m wrong?

Hell yes! Who wants to have white hot pokers shoved into their eyes and their intestines gnawed by rats? This really shits me – how can you have a just and perfect loving god who allows such things?

Let me give you a quick parallel: I have two beautiful daughters who want to play on the busy road outside. Now I love my kids, but I cannot interfere with their free will. I know playing on the road is dangerous and there is a good chance they will be badly injured or killed if they go out there, but what can I do? Is it their fault when they are struck by a truck and spread all over the bitumen?

Well, you are making the same stupid decision today if you reject Jesus.

There are many religions in the world today (not to mention now dead religions) which threaten eternal damnation for those who are foolish enough to reject their doctrines. The two most prevalent modern examples are Christianity and Islam, but it’s by no means limited to these two. If I am to avoid timeless suffering I must be sure of the faith I select, since both renditions of God are quite intolerant of disbelief.

Without substantiating your claim that Jesus is the only way to attain access to Heaven, then I can simple assert that you are making the same stupid decision if you reject the teachings of the final prophet of Allah. Your empty threats mean nothing without proving your case first. The scare tactics you have demonstrated here may have worked in the dark ages, but the church and your antiquated theology can no longer stand the education and rational thinking modern society has attained – fighting religion at every stage.

You silly religion will be thrown on the scrape heap of history, like all those that came before it.

UPDATE: Marcus has responded here.