No matter how things are.

In Marcus’s latest reply he fails utterly. Again.

In no way does Ross say that God could not choose different constants! God chose the constants we have so that the universe would be as we find it! That is Ross’ argument. Try another straw-man argument.

This argument is pointless and silly because it simply cannot be proven false. You see, it does not matter which cosmological constants God apparently selected (although I have already shown that these values are our way of describing the universe, which simply just exist independently our mathematics) – Marcus and Dr. Ross simply claim that God selected those values with no evidence that this is actually the case. What’s more, it doesn’t even show which potential God out of the thousands throughout history choose these values.

Even if God did choose different values, exactly the same argument Dr. Ross is proposing would hold true. Even if we devised another mathematical framework which only required 3 constants the argument would hold. If we demonstrate that the values could not have been any other way due to some deeper understanding of the universe obtained through observation and experimentation – the argument would hold. You see, the argument holds in every case, which means it is valuable in none.

Care to try again, Marcus?

Andrew, no where does the Bible teach a earth-centric universe. No where! Yes the catholic church in Galileo’s time taught that and persecuted scientist who opposed it. So what? That is not what the Bible says. The church acted contrary to God. No surprise there – they were people just like you and me.

How about these for a start?

“Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.” – 1 Chronicles 16

“He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.” – 1 Samuel

“Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.” –

“The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it.” –

Seems like the authors believed the Earth did not move. Seems reasonable as our senses do not give that impression, but it’s still totally wrong. Even if you disagree with the stable, motionless Earth interpretation these verses indicate, you must admit it is possible to interpret them in this way. When a verse can be interpreted to mean both a fixed and in motion, then it too is worthless.

Writing these passages off as poetry, allegory, or symbolic in way way vindicates your view. For centuries the official position of the world’s religions (and that of science) was a fixed, immovable, flat Earth. To say otherwise put you in mortal peril from the bishops, priests, and Kings in power. Only after careful investigation, observation, experimentation, record keeping, and deep thought did the evidence for alternate views become so overwhelming that the truth could not be suppressed any longer. The Catholic Church (the first organised Christian sect) officially recognised a heliocentric solar system 350 years after Galileo figured it out. How’s that for divine guidance?

It’s exactly the Christian theistic argument that God created the universe to achieve a purpose(s). It’s not unknowable. It is being revealed to us. The Bible does give insight.

So you have no idea what the purpose is, if any. You simply have faith that your God has created a universe in which we are an inexplicably small part. One which, to spite its immense size, would kill us instantly if we were to materialise in some random place. One which has another galaxy hurtling on a collision course with our own. One in which our sun will explode in a massive supernova, killing all life forever. One which is expanding and cooling leading unalterably to heat death where life as we know it will be impossible – anywhere. And somehow this is designed for us? You need you head read.