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	<title>Comments on: The Miracles of Mary Mackillop</title>
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	<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/</link>
	<description>...believe us or go to hell.</description>
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		<title>By: David Gibson</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-4181</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-4181</guid>
		<description>It is nuts isn&#039;t it? If you believe in God and his propensity to answer prayers he deems worthy (by whatever mysterious criteria) why go to someone below him? Why would an all-knowing all-powerful entity need you to find yourself an advocate or lobbyist for your cause in heaven? Let alone one who hasn&#039;t even demonstrated (assuming you see value in the sainthood, which I&#039;d guess you would if you were prayer to a saint or potential saint) their capacity to bend God&#039;s ear? 
 
I&#039;ve seen surveys were Catholics are asked who they prayed to and God or Jesus weren&#039;t even the top of the list... wtf? 
 
I&#039;m also confused about why the Church even needs a criteria... it all seems to reveal itself for the sham that it is by the adjusted criteria (reduction of number of miracles) and dropping of saints who were no longer thought to have either existed or been as sinless as originally thought.. It also seems strange that saints seem only to work now via medical miracles, a lont of the earlier saints had a variety of miracles attributed to them in various domains but now it seems they&#039;ve specialised in terminal illness cures.  
 
Those crazy catholics... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is nuts isn&#039;t it? If you believe in God and his propensity to answer prayers he deems worthy (by whatever mysterious criteria) why go to someone below him? Why would an all-knowing all-powerful entity need you to find yourself an advocate or lobbyist for your cause in heaven? Let alone one who hasn&#039;t even demonstrated (assuming you see value in the sainthood, which I&#039;d guess you would if you were prayer to a saint or potential saint) their capacity to bend God&#039;s ear? </p>
<p>I&#039;ve seen surveys were Catholics are asked who they prayed to and God or Jesus weren&#039;t even the top of the list&#8230; wtf? </p>
<p>I&#039;m also confused about why the Church even needs a criteria&#8230; it all seems to reveal itself for the sham that it is by the adjusted criteria (reduction of number of miracles) and dropping of saints who were no longer thought to have either existed or been as sinless as originally thought.. It also seems strange that saints seem only to work now via medical miracles, a lont of the earlier saints had a variety of miracles attributed to them in various domains but now it seems they&#039;ve specialised in terminal illness cures.  </p>
<p>Those crazy catholics&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewFinden</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-4179</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewFinden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-4179</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Although, 1 Timothy 6:16 states    
    
    &#8220;God dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has even seen or can see.&#8221;    
    
I am no theological[sic], but I am sure there is another passage in the Bible, or some liberal interpretations which can reverse this decree.  Or maybe we can simply ignore it for convenience?&lt;/blockquote&gt;    
    
No theologian? That&#039;s an understatement! Of course, we&#039;re not confined to your false trichotomy - the other valid option is to engage in some proper exegesis. And when we do, we see that he&#039;s not saying &#039;no one will ever be able to&#039; as you seem to have interpreted it - the word used &#039;dynamai&#039; is in the present tense and speaks of present capabilities, which is of course absolutely consistent with the rest of Paul&#039;s writings which talk about the transformation in the future so that we will be able to. (sorry to dampen your love of proof-texting) And it&#039;s not even a &#039;decree&#039; as you put it, but a piece of doxology. Perhaps you&#039;d rather just ignore exegesis for convenience?    
    
That aside, the whole RCC saint thing is a bit nuts. I mean, why would one take their chances praying to someone who hadn&#039;t yet proved themselves? (or more correctly, ask them to pray for you.. as I understand it, people don&#039;t pray &lt;i&gt;to&lt;/i&gt; saints, but ask them to pray for them... I&#039;m not sure what the difference is though) Maybe they just all missed the bit in Ephesians 2:18..?  
[btw, how did you get your comments blockquotes to be styled differently to the main post?] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Although, 1 Timothy 6:16 states    </p>
<p>    &ldquo;God dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has even seen or can see.&rdquo;    </p>
<p>I am no theological[sic], but I am sure there is another passage in the Bible, or some liberal interpretations which can reverse this decree.  Or maybe we can simply ignore it for convenience?</p></blockquote>
<p>No theologian? That&#039;s an understatement! Of course, we&#039;re not confined to your false trichotomy &#8211; the other valid option is to engage in some proper exegesis. And when we do, we see that he&#039;s not saying &#039;no one will ever be able to&#039; as you seem to have interpreted it &#8211; the word used &#039;dynamai&#039; is in the present tense and speaks of present capabilities, which is of course absolutely consistent with the rest of Paul&#039;s writings which talk about the transformation in the future so that we will be able to. (sorry to dampen your love of proof-texting) And it&#039;s not even a &#039;decree&#039; as you put it, but a piece of doxology. Perhaps you&#039;d rather just ignore exegesis for convenience?    </p>
<p>That aside, the whole RCC saint thing is a bit nuts. I mean, why would one take their chances praying to someone who hadn&#039;t yet proved themselves? (or more correctly, ask them to pray for you.. as I understand it, people don&#039;t pray <i>to</i> saints, but ask them to pray for them&#8230; I&#039;m not sure what the difference is though) Maybe they just all missed the bit in Ephesians 2:18..?<br />
[btw, how did you get your comments blockquotes to be styled differently to the main post?]</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewFinden</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-4177</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewFinden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-4177</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;miracles are by definition not possible&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
How so &#039;by definition&#039;? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>miracles are by definition not possible</p></blockquote>
<p>How so &#039;by definition&#039;?</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-4143</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-4143</guid>
		<description>/sigh Fucking idiots.  Like I have said before miracles are by definition not possible, well you first have to prove the super-natural and personally, as we have seen before, I don&#039;t believe that is possible ether. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/sigh Fucking idiots.  Like I have said before miracles are by definition not possible, well you first have to prove the super-natural and personally, as we have seen before, I don&#039;t believe that is possible ether.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gibson</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-4142</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-4142</guid>
		<description>Just saw a report on Channel 10 news today about another miracle attributed to Mary Mackillip, this time teenage boy with multiple chronic conditions (MS, Hodgekin&#039;s Lymphoma and Epilepsy) is basically in relatively good health and alive, finished high school and working part-time. 
 
Never got any screen time with the boy talking just the Mother saying she believed in healing power of God (but conveniently ignores the capacity for God to give someone such conditions) and recounting a &#039;vision&#039; she had of Mackillop. 
 
What annoyed me the most though was the reporter saying &#039;Jack&#039;s recovery baffled Doctors&#039; and they then play a bite from his neurologist saying he treats lots of kids with various disorders and Jack is &#039;one special young man&#039;. Didn&#039;t sound baffled to me! Has he recovered? The report never says that he no longer has any symptoms for his conditions... he really doesn&#039;t seem 100% recovered to me. As best as I can tell the kid has just had good treatment and support and fortunately it has worked rather well... where the fuck is the miracle? Is he the only child to live 5 years beyond a doctors predicted remaing years of life? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just saw a report on Channel 10 news today about another miracle attributed to Mary Mackillip, this time teenage boy with multiple chronic conditions (MS, Hodgekin&#039;s Lymphoma and Epilepsy) is basically in relatively good health and alive, finished high school and working part-time. </p>
<p>Never got any screen time with the boy talking just the Mother saying she believed in healing power of God (but conveniently ignores the capacity for God to give someone such conditions) and recounting a &#039;vision&#039; she had of Mackillop. </p>
<p>What annoyed me the most though was the reporter saying &#039;Jack&#039;s recovery baffled Doctors&#039; and they then play a bite from his neurologist saying he treats lots of kids with various disorders and Jack is &#039;one special young man&#039;. Didn&#039;t sound baffled to me! Has he recovered? The report never says that he no longer has any symptoms for his conditions&#8230; he really doesn&#039;t seem 100% recovered to me. As best as I can tell the kid has just had good treatment and support and fortunately it has worked rather well&#8230; where the fuck is the miracle? Is he the only child to live 5 years beyond a doctors predicted remaing years of life?</p>
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		<title>By: David Gibson</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-4141</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2010 04:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-4141</guid>
		<description>They are two crucial questions, the first is really about the nature of prayers and why they are thought to work by fallible and systematically foolable human minds. The second is really about the origins of Catholicism and its psudeo-pantheon of saints and sub-Gods hovering around the Divine Trinity which is also an excuse to fuse polytheism into monotheism. 
 
But that is how an atheist views it, I struggle to find meaningful answers from a religious perspective. Perhaps our resident sophisticated Christian may add his thoughts? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are two crucial questions, the first is really about the nature of prayers and why they are thought to work by fallible and systematically foolable human minds. The second is really about the origins of Catholicism and its psudeo-pantheon of saints and sub-Gods hovering around the Divine Trinity which is also an excuse to fuse polytheism into monotheism. </p>
<p>But that is how an atheist views it, I struggle to find meaningful answers from a religious perspective. Perhaps our resident sophisticated Christian may add his thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: therebelprince</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-4140</link>
		<dc:creator>therebelprince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 21:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-4140</guid>
		<description>Oh, &#039;indifferent&#039;, personally I thought this article was an enjoyable analysis of the situation. I personally have no problem with an individual having a coping mechanism when their loved one is dying. But I think that a &#039;coping mechanism&#039; is a far cry from a religion that promotes intolerance, sexual and personal repression, the suppression of women and homosexuals, and really just outright bigotry. 
 
But, back to the point of Mary and her travelling sideshow, I&#039;m still waiting to hear reasonable answers to a few questions: a) that already posed, why doesn&#039;t she answer more prayers? and b) I don&#039;t know much about religion, but why are these people praying to a middle[wo]man? What&#039;s wrong with just asking the big guy for help? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, &#039;indifferent&#039;, personally I thought this article was an enjoyable analysis of the situation. I personally have no problem with an individual having a coping mechanism when their loved one is dying. But I think that a &#039;coping mechanism&#039; is a far cry from a religion that promotes intolerance, sexual and personal repression, the suppression of women and homosexuals, and really just outright bigotry. </p>
<p>But, back to the point of Mary and her travelling sideshow, I&#039;m still waiting to hear reasonable answers to a few questions: a) that already posed, why doesn&#039;t she answer more prayers? and b) I don&#039;t know much about religion, but why are these people praying to a middle[wo]man? What&#039;s wrong with just asking the big guy for help?</p>
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		<title>By: askegg</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-3460</link>
		<dc:creator>askegg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-3460</guid>
		<description>Only if I get my rant on. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only if I get my rant on.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan_Parsons</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-3459</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan_Parsons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-3459</guid>
		<description>Two trolls in a week; you&#039;re getting popular. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two trolls in a week; you&#039;re getting popular.</p>
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		<title>By: askegg</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-3458</link>
		<dc:creator>askegg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-3458</guid>
		<description>How could I?  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.godless.biz/2010/08/18/how-could-i/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This is how&lt;/a&gt;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could I?  <a href="http://www.godless.biz/2010/08/18/how-could-i/" rel="nofollow">This is how</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Godless Business &#8211; How could I?</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-3457</link>
		<dc:creator>Godless Business &#8211; How could I?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-3457</guid>
		<description>[...] this person who has decided to label themselves &#8220;indifferent&#8221;, who comments on a post I wrote about Saint Mary Mackillop and the bizarre Catholic beatification [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this person who has decided to label themselves &#8220;indifferent&#8221;, who comments on a post I wrote about Saint Mary Mackillop and the bizarre Catholic beatification [...]</p>
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		<title>By: indifferent</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-3455</link>
		<dc:creator>indifferent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-3455</guid>
		<description>How could you?? Have you ever had to face the unfair fact that someone you love is dying??  Someone that is a good person, before their time??  Someone that is the most important person in the world to you??? This is the time when you make take comfort in the talk of miracles.. and pray your arse off for one.. don&#039;t take away peoples coping mechanisms.  You cannot tell me if you were dangling from a cliff edge by your fingernail... that you might not utter... Oh, god, please help me????!!!  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could you?? Have you ever had to face the unfair fact that someone you love is dying??  Someone that is a good person, before their time??  Someone that is the most important person in the world to you??? This is the time when you make take comfort in the talk of miracles.. and pray your arse off for one.. don&#039;t take away peoples coping mechanisms.  You cannot tell me if you were dangling from a cliff edge by your fingernail&#8230; that you might not utter&#8230; Oh, god, please help me????!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention The Miracles of Mary Mackillop « Godless Business -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.godless.biz/2010/01/20/the-miracles-of-mary-mackillop/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention The Miracles of Mary Mackillop « Godless Business -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://godless.biz/?p=2158#comment-469</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Andrew Skegg, StrangeGlobal. StrangeGlobal said: Funny read about sainthood and miracles by @askegg http://bit.ly/82vfDk [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Andrew Skegg, StrangeGlobal. StrangeGlobal said: Funny read about sainthood and miracles by @askegg <a href="http://bit.ly/82vfDk" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/82vfDk</a> [...]</p>
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